Guardian
Paterson Firemen's Military Service
June 1997: Soldiers Monument Installed at Hill Crest Firehouse on Union Avenue
Dayspring Photo
Civil War
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During the civil war the firemen of Paterson were among the first to volunteer their services in defense of he country. At the time Paterson had several crack militia companies, but no groups volunteered for the Union with greater alacrity than the firemen.
Passaic Engine Co. No. 1 had forty-two members. Underneath the names of twenty-eight in the due book are written these words: "Absent in defense of his country." That company's runners (the Passaic Association) enlisted almost to a man. |
Paterson's Civil War Monument - at one time sat atop Passaic Falls
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Neptune Engine company 2 and Washington Engine 3 furnished two full companies for the 25th Regiment of the New Jersey Volunteers; Co. A, Captain John McKiernan, and Co. C, Captain Archibald Graham, the former mainly composed of Washington engine 3's men and the latter made up from members of Neptune No. 2. In the old Exempt home on Ward Street displayed in a large oval frame on the wall of the room, were the portraits of company C (in firemen's uniform) of Co. 2's Captain Graham, First Lieutenant William J. Stevenson, Second Lieutenant Robert Parmley First Sergeant William H. Norris, Sergeant Andrew Doremus, Sergeant Edward Swift, Sergeant Thomas Maher, Henry Coyle, William H. Post, Charles Spittel, Andrew Clark, John Singland, Robert Enkins, Francis D. Clinton, Wiliam Skinner and Albert C. Doremus.
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Andrew Derrom, colonel of the 25th, was an old fireman, having served nine years in Neptune No. 2, and nearly every line officer in the regiment had seen service as a fireman. |
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Every company recruited in Paterson had in its ranks many firemen, while Co. K, 13th Regiment Volunteers, had for its captain Hugh C. Irish, for many years one of Passaic No. l's most active members.
The part taken by Paterson firemen in suppressing the rebellion is a grand one. As the war progressed and promotion followed bravery, the fire companies whose members were thus advanced were in the habit of presenting them with the paraphernalia pertaining to the rank conferred. The files of the daily papers frequently contained accounts of presentations to fortunate officers. James McKiernan, of Jackson No. 4, was elected Chief Engineer in April, 1861, enlisted in the following September, and came home major of the 7th New Jersey infantry, his duties as chief being performed for the balance of his term, while he was absent at the front, by his assistants. James was the brother of John McKiernan who n September, 1862, also went to the war as captain of Company A, 25th Regiment, New Jersey Volunteers. After the war John became the Chief Engineer in 1868. There were two other McKiernan brothers Christopher (of Passaic Engine 1) and Samuel (of Washington Engine 3).
May 8, 1861: Company proclamation regarding member who left to fight for the Union
Guardian courtesy Dennis Morrison
May 18, 1861: Chief James McKiernan summons all company officers to a Meeting on May 20 at Eagle H&L 1 quarters to discuss military service.
Guardian
May 28, 1861: FF escort soldiers leaving Paterson to fight for the Union Army
Guardian courtesy Dennis Morrison
July 8, 1861: Photos of Eagle 1 FF who left to fight for the Union
Guardian courtesy Dennis Morrison
September 13, 1861: Chief James Mckiernan, a Captain in US Army leads a company of numerous Paterson Firefighters, many from Washington Engine Company 3, to war. The first lieutenant was Thomas Agnew of Washington 3 and 2nd lieutenant William Evans of Neptune 2. The company was called the "Washington Rifles."
Guardian
September 16, 1861: Spectacular departure of the company of Paterson Firemen (called the Washington Rifles) from Temperance Island on West Street to the train depot (where a locomotive decorated in flags was waiting - They accompanied by the Paterson Brass band (playing "Away Down South in Dixie") witnessed by immense throngs of citizens crowding the streets, balconies and windows. Every apparatus in the city was decorated with National Colors and flowers. Cannons were being fired!
Guardian
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Parade Description
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September 20, 1861: Resolution from Companies 1, 3, 4, 5, Eagle H&L 1 and Hose Company 1 to Chief McKiernan for organizing the patriotic young men of Paterson. Presented with a sword, sash, belt and revolver for use in the hour of need.
September 22 Guardian
Sword and scabbard presented to Captain McKiernan - then Chief Engineer of PFD. An inscribed cane was provided which was to be presented to General of the Army Winfield Scott.
September 20 Guardian
September 22 Guardian
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September 22 Guardian
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September 24 Guardian
September 29 Guardian
Charles H. Cundell of Eagle H&L Co. 1 was the first (elected by firemen) Chief Engineer of Department in 1840 and 1841 in Volunteer Department. He ought for the Union as member of NY Volunteers (Atilllery), Company 1 of 5th Regiment. Below is the presentation Civil War sword that was presented to Lieutenant Cundell w by Eagle Hook and Ladder Co. 1
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1862 news clip describing men of Company1 heading to war
Courtesy Jim Eifler
January 19, 1862: Death of Passaic Engine Company 1 member William Kay, a patriotic soldier announced by Company President John Van Blarcom -
January 20 Guardian courtesy Dennis Morrison
March 22, 1862: Ball of Eagle Hook and Ladder Company 1 centered around their Union volunteers
Guardian courtesy Dennis Morrison
August 28, 1862: Engine Companies 2 and 3 preparing war companies
Guardian
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August 29 Guardian
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March 14, 1863: Washington Engine 3 provides presentation swords
Guardian - courtesy Dennis Morrison
In 1863 the men of Protection 5 presented Chief Peter Fields who had joined the Union Army an battle sword with an engraving on top the scabbard.
Dayspring collection at Boonton Firemen's Museum
William Skinner, of Neptune 2, was killed at the battle of Suffolk, VA., on May 3, 1863. Francis DeWitt Clinton was wounded and suffered the loss of his leg at the Battle of Fredericksburg, VA, on December 13, 1862.
May 13, 1864: Resolutions by Neptune Engine Company 2 - Death of company member and US Army Captain William J Evans of Company B of 7th Regiment. He died on May 12 leading his company in battle at Spotsylvania. Neptune 2 will wear badge of mourning for 30 days.
June 13 Guardian
June 23, 1864: Report from Private John Stagg (future Chief Engineer of PFD) who was stationed in central Virginia
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Guardian
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1866 photo of the major post Civil War Parade led by the Volunteers - seen here at West Broadway where it joins Main Street and Broadway. Directly behind (center right) the veterans is the Chief of Department, Andrew Moser, seen with white hat and large Trumpet.
James C Mills fought at Gettysburg and Richmond - was member of Production Engine 5 and then an Assistant Chief in Paid PFD after 1891
James C Mills as Assistant Chief
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1917 Morning Call Obituary - Courtesy Dennis Morrison
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July 22, 1903: Passing of wounded at Antietam Civil War Vet and member of Columbia
Hose 1 Jacob Mohrle
Hose 1 Jacob Mohrle
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Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
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1909 Interview of Chief Stagg re his time in Union Army
Guardian courtesy Dennis Morrison
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World War I
June 6, 1917: 50-60 Firefighters and 30 patrolmen registered for service and wore "I Am Registered Buttons"
Morning Call - Courtesy Dennis Morrison
February 26, 1918: As of this date 12 Paterson FF are in US Military (Navy and Army) during WWI. Note that John Millington would loose his life in defense of his country.
Morning Call - Courtesy Dennis Morrison
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August 24, 1918 - Letter to his fellow firefighters published in the Guardian from then FF James Troy while serving at the front. Prophetically he would go on to be gassed and severely injured. He would also become Chief Engineer in 1946.
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Courtesy Dennis Morrison
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1941 FMBA Ball Book
From the 1918 Ball Book
Paterson Firefighters awarded the Purple Heart during WWI (list may not be complete)
John J. Hess US Army May 1, 1916 - June 15, 1919 - Appointed 1920
John Mial US Army Sergeant February 28, 1916 - May 16, 1919 - Appointed 1922
Joseph A. Bray US Army March 26, 1917 -May 16, 1919 – Appointed 1923
William Saunders US Army April 25,1918 - March 19, 1919 - Appointed 1925
John Whalen US Army November 23, 1917 - August 29, 1919 - Appointed 1925
Ferdinand Miller US Army Sergeant June 23, 1916 - March 26, 1919 - Appointed 1927
John E Hill US Army 1st Division 5th Field Artillery - August 1932 - Appointed 1919
John Mial US Army Sergeant February 28, 1916 - May 16, 1919 - Appointed 1922
Joseph A. Bray US Army March 26, 1917 -May 16, 1919 – Appointed 1923
William Saunders US Army April 25,1918 - March 19, 1919 - Appointed 1925
John Whalen US Army November 23, 1917 - August 29, 1919 - Appointed 1925
Ferdinand Miller US Army Sergeant June 23, 1916 - March 26, 1919 - Appointed 1927
John E Hill US Army 1st Division 5th Field Artillery - August 1932 - Appointed 1919
John J. Hess
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John Mial
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Joseph Bray
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William Saunders
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John Whalen
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Ferdinand Miller
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August 8, 1932 Morning Call
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John Millington, born in 1892, who was appointed to Engine Company 10 on February 17, 1918, lost his life (died of disease) in defense of the United States in France during WWI.
May 13, 1919 News courtesy Dennis Morrison
May 1, 1919: Obituary of John Millington
May 15 Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
The citizens of Paterson erected a WWI memorial statue in People's Park: Market Street, at intersection of East 22nd Street, & 19th Avenue. The statue displays a uniformed World War I soldier standing with his arms folded at his chest, wearing a campaign hat, jacket, leggings, ammunition belt, and a bayonet. The soldier holds the remains of a rifle in his proper left hand. On the soldier's back is blanket roll with a gas mask case and canteen below it. An artillery mortar piece is behind the soldier's proper left leg. The soldier is mounted upon a multitier, square base with plaques on all four sides, including Honor Rolls on the sides and back. The plaque on the front of the statute (shown below) lists those who lost their lives. On the other three sides of the statue are listed over 400 Patersonians who served during WWI
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John Millington from 1921 Ball Book
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John Millington's name is on a plaque that adorns the statue
Morning Call August 29, 1919 Courtesy Jim Eifler
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August 13, 1932: F/F John Hill receives Purple Heart. He was appointed November 1919 and retired October 1936 (filed a claim with relief).
Paterson News courtesy Dennis Morrison
World War II
December 31, 1940: F/F John Hoffman becomes first PFD 1A conscript just prior to WWII
Paterson News
The Home Front in Paterson - The US Civil Defense Program
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1942 Ball Book
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September 29, 1942: Typical WWII Correspondence for a FF notifying Fire and Police Commission of military enlistment status and the response - this one pertains to then Engine 5 FF Gerard Dugan
Courtesy Richard Dugan
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October 12, 1942: Party for departing firefighter Robert G Campbell as he departs for US Navy
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Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
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Morning Call
November 19, 1942: Leave of absence granted to departing F/F
Paterson News
World War II FMBA ball Books
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During World War II many firemen volunteered their services as
evidenced by the 1944 FMBA Ballbook.
evidenced by the 1944 FMBA Ballbook.
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The above roster, from the 1944 Ball Book only includes firemen who took a leave of absence from the PFD to serve their country. Many other WWII veterans joined the PFD in the years after the war ended. Below is a list from PFD archives (inductees and enlistees) compiled after the War. Note the typo - Harold Lane should be Harold J Kane
Dayspring Collection
July 30, 1944: Andrew Offner (below) of Truck Company 3 (pictured at the left) was inducted into the United States Army March 3, 1943. He died in action at Normandy, France (D-Day Invasion) as a Private on July 30, 1944.
FF Andrew Offner
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FF and Lieutenant Bernard Kennedy
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October 29, 1944: Bernard J. Kennedy (above right) was appointed to the Paterson Fire Department May 19, 1942 while already in the service. He was a Lieutenant when killed in action in Holland October 29, 1944.
November 14, 1944: Paterson Evening News
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Courtesy Dennis Morrison
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December 20, 1944
November 10, 1944: 1968 story of WWII disaster (sinking of USS Hood). PFD F/F Joseph Ranieri was a survivor. He was appointed to PFD September 1, 1952 – Served at Engine 5, 1, 11, 8, and as a Chiefs aide - Retired September 1, 1977
July 24 1968 Paterson Evening News courtesy Dennis Morrison
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March 14, 1945: FMBA Ball Book
1945 FMBA Ball Book
August 28, 1945: After VJ day, PFD and PPD members started to return to Paterson
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October 7, 1945: Death of Charles Troy at Iwo Jima - son of Deputy Chief (and future Chief Engineer) James Troy
Morning Call - Courtesy Dennis Morrison
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February 8, 1947: Post WW II firemen's civil service test - Most were veterans (9 disabled) - many PFD relatives.
Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
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April 12, 1947: Ball Book: Returning veterans including future Chief Engineer William Comer appointed
July 16, 1947: New veteran appointments
Mourning Call courtesy Dennis Mortrison
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September 10, 1947: More veterans appointed to PFD and PPD
Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
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October 22, 1947: 6 Vets named as firefighters
Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
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February 10, 1948: Funeral for FF Andrew Offner Jr who died in action March 3, 1943.
Morning Call courtesy Dennis Morrison
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February 12 News
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February 18 Paterson News courtesy Dennis Morrison
Paterson Firefighters awarded the Purple Heart during WWII (list may not be complete)
Ernest Biggs Two tours in US Army December 1934 - December 1937 and also
February 1943 - February 1946 - Appointed 1947
Mario Colatarci US Army July 8, 1941 - June 6, 1945 - Appointed 1947
Francis Dalton Jr. US Army December 26, 1942- December 16, 1945 Appointed 1947
William Downey US Army Sergeant February 17, 1942-October 4, 1945 - Appointed 1947
Received Bronze Star
Richard Shortway US Army Sergeant March 29, 1943-March 30, 1946 - Appointed 1947
Adolph Guzik US Marine Corps November 20, 1942-October 22, 1945
Received two Purple Hearts & Presidential Unit Citation - Appointed 1950
Phil Berman US Navy December 26, 1944 - July 30, 1946 - Appointed 1950
Patsy Giglio US Army December 23 1942 - December 18, 1945 - Appointed 1954
Robert Wagner US Army Sergeant August 29, 1940-August 29, 1946 - Appointed 1954
Henry Kocian US Army March 11, 1943-September 8, 1945 - Appointed 1956
Walter McMahon US Army Air Corps December 22, 1941-October 1945 - Appointed 1956
Anthony Sirianni US Army Sergeant February 17, 1941-October 5, 1945 - Appointed 1960
Philip Mendillo USMC Corporal September. 27, 1947-September 28, 1951 - Appointed 1961
February 1943 - February 1946 - Appointed 1947
Mario Colatarci US Army July 8, 1941 - June 6, 1945 - Appointed 1947
Francis Dalton Jr. US Army December 26, 1942- December 16, 1945 Appointed 1947
William Downey US Army Sergeant February 17, 1942-October 4, 1945 - Appointed 1947
Received Bronze Star
Richard Shortway US Army Sergeant March 29, 1943-March 30, 1946 - Appointed 1947
Adolph Guzik US Marine Corps November 20, 1942-October 22, 1945
Received two Purple Hearts & Presidential Unit Citation - Appointed 1950
Phil Berman US Navy December 26, 1944 - July 30, 1946 - Appointed 1950
Patsy Giglio US Army December 23 1942 - December 18, 1945 - Appointed 1954
Robert Wagner US Army Sergeant August 29, 1940-August 29, 1946 - Appointed 1954
Henry Kocian US Army March 11, 1943-September 8, 1945 - Appointed 1956
Walter McMahon US Army Air Corps December 22, 1941-October 1945 - Appointed 1956
Anthony Sirianni US Army Sergeant February 17, 1941-October 5, 1945 - Appointed 1960
Philip Mendillo USMC Corporal September. 27, 1947-September 28, 1951 - Appointed 1961
Ernest Biggs - also received European African Campaign Medal, Combat Infantry Badge, American Service Badge
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Mario Colitarci - also received American Defense Good Conduct Medal
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Francis Dalton Jr.
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Richard Shortway
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William Downey - :also received Bronze Star, European Theatre Victory Medal, Good Conduct Medal
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Adolph Guzik - also received Presidential Unit Citation
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Phil Berman
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Patsy Giglio
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Robert Wagner
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Henry Kocian - Normandy Campaign - Shrapnel wounds
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Walter McMahon - also received Air Medal European Theatre
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Anthony Sirianni
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Philip Mendillo
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Chief Harold J Kane served in the Pacific theatre as an Aviation Machinist Mate in US Navy March 1, 1943 thru August 27, 1946. He received the Air Medal Presidential Unit Citation with Star for a plane crash while on a mission over the Philipines. He spent 21 months in hospital undergoing graft surgery.
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Harold Kane
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John Cichon
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John A. Cichon served in the U.S. Army as a Technical Sergeant March 27, 1943 thru October 6, 1945 and received the Distinguished Flying Cross with 6 Battle Stars, Presidential Unit Air Medal with 3 Clusters. He was appointed to PFD February 1, 1950
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Frank Giardino served as PFC in U.S. Army June 12, 1943 thru July 25, 1945 – Awarded Bronze Star, One Battle Star, Good Conduct Medal - Appointed PFD February 16, 1943 |
FF Frank Giardino
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Louis Rotella as a BC
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Louis Rotella served as Sergeant US Army (Air Corps) July 31, 1943 thru November 30, 1946: His plane was shot down over Germany & he was prisoner of war. PFD career was FF, Lieutenant, Captain and BC |
November 7, 1952: Reception for repatriated Korean War POW Captain Ralph Nardella who is the brother of PFD Captain Joe Nardella
Paterson News curtesy Dennis Morrison
Korea
Paterson Firefighters awarded the Purple Heart during Korea (list may not be complete)
Michael Ross USMC Corporal May 9, 1948-May 10, 1952 Appointed1960
William Mosca USMC - Sergeant October 29, 1951- October 30, 1954 Appointed 1963
William Mosca USMC - Sergeant October 29, 1951- October 30, 1954 Appointed 1963
Mike Ross
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William "Red" Mosca
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Vietnam
Paterson Firefighters awarded the Purple Heart during Vietnam (list may not be complete)
Edward Conklin Corporal USMC - September 7, 1966 – October 4, 1968: Appointed 1972
Anthony Puglia - Specialist in US Army from February 20, 1968 thru February 19, 1971
Bronze Star, Combat Infantry Badge, Commendation Medal, Vietnam Service Medal
Appointed 1978
Anthony Puglia - Specialist in US Army from February 20, 1968 thru February 19, 1971
Bronze Star, Combat Infantry Badge, Commendation Medal, Vietnam Service Medal
Appointed 1978
Edward Conklin
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Anthony Puglia
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Deputy Chief James Tice appointed 1969 Served as Sergeant US Army October 28, 1965 thru October 25, 1968 – Bronze Star, Infantry Combat Badge, Paratroopers Badge |
James Tice
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November 19, 1967: The son of Captain Alphonse Iandoli, Donald, was killed in action in Kontum Province, South Vietnam. His name is on the Vietnam Memorial in Washington DC.
For details CLICK HERE Donald had several medals including a Purple Heart.
For details CLICK HERE Donald had several medals including a Purple Heart.
Military - Related
Firemen had to request of the Board a leave of absence before leaving for service to his country. Temporary replacements were then hired to serve until the veteran returned: see the appointment of Aloysius Lynch to replace the departing Joseph Dayspring below
Dayspring Collection
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When Joseph Dayspring was discharged from the service he was cleared to return to duty and Aloysius Lynch was terminated
Dayspring Collection
September 16, 1971: VFW award for WWII Vet
Paterson News courtesy Dennis Morrison
May 3, 2008: Paterson FF to be deployed to Iraq
Herald courtesy Dennis Morrison
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October 29, 2014: Two WWII Veterans, Ret. FF Joe Parkin Sr and Ret. Captain John Walton meet at a Community Meeting
Herald courtesy Denis Morrison
May 31 2016: From, North Jersey News: John Walton, a survivor of Pearl Harbor and retired Paterson firefighter, died on Tuesday from injuries he suffered over Memorial Day weekend when his car crashed into a city firehouse where he once worked, officials said. Walton, who was 101, had been the city’s oldest living war veteran, according to Tony Vancheri, president of the Paterson Veterans Council.
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Just several days before his death, Walton had attended a Memorial Day weekend ceremony at Passaic County Technical Institute, Vancheri said. “He was like a magnet the way he drew all the kids to him,” said Vancheri.
The fatal crash happened on Sunday afternoon, when Walton’s car grazed a fire truck (Engine Company 6) and then rammed into the brick firehouse on Getty Avenue, officials said.
“I think the most tragic thing is that after a long career of putting his life in jeopardy he died from traffic accident,” said Mayor Jose “Joey” Torres. “Not from a burning building. Not from a torpedo. But from a car crash.”
The fatal crash happened on Sunday afternoon, when Walton’s car grazed a fire truck (Engine Company 6) and then rammed into the brick firehouse on Getty Avenue, officials said.
“I think the most tragic thing is that after a long career of putting his life in jeopardy he died from traffic accident,” said Mayor Jose “Joey” Torres. “Not from a burning building. Not from a torpedo. But from a car crash.”
Officials said it was not clear where Walton was heading when the crash happened.
Vancheri, a neighbor of Walton’s, said the veteran still lived an active life and still drove short distances during the daytime and could be found tending the flower garden in front of his Maitland Avenue home.
“He was a kind and gentle man,” said Vancheri. “Everybody liked him.” Walton was in the barracks on Ford Island at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese planes attacked. “We heard this plane screaming. What’s going on? This is a Sunday!” Walton said in an interview with The Record in 2011. “And then we started hearing the bombs going off. We went to the window and see this plane flying over our heads, with the red spots on it. It was probably dropping a bomb on the ol’ Utah out there. Somebody had the sense to say, ‘Better get down to the first floor.’ That’s when it all started for us." "We were in the mess hall on the first floor, and all of a sudden the guys were coming in from the battleships anchored off Ford Island. They were swimming from the battleships to land. They were full of oil, more in shock. We were helping take care of the poor guys from the battleships."
Walton was discharged from the Navy in September 1945 after serving four years in the Pacific. Then, he became a city firefighter, rising to the rank of captain before he retired in 1980. John Harris, head of the Passaic County Veterans Office, recalled meeting Walton when the two of them were members of the Paterson fire department in the 1970s. Harris was a young recruit who had been in the military in Vietnam. “All of those years, I never knew he was a survivor of Pearl Harbor,” said Harris. “He was one of those guys who saw the horrors of war and didn’t talk much about it.” Harris described Walton as “gentleman.”
Two years ago, Walton was honored as one of Paterson’s “hometown heroes” by the Boys and Girls Club of Paterson and Passaic. Young Paterson firefighters liked to pose for pictures with him because of his stature. Torres said the flags at Paterson’s firehouses would fly at half-mast in Walton’s honor. In his 2011 interview, Walton said he still thought back on his time in the Navy. "Every once in a while you lay in bed and go over it, I guess,” he said. “You think about the fun you had, more than you think about the trouble out there."
Vancheri, a neighbor of Walton’s, said the veteran still lived an active life and still drove short distances during the daytime and could be found tending the flower garden in front of his Maitland Avenue home.
“He was a kind and gentle man,” said Vancheri. “Everybody liked him.” Walton was in the barracks on Ford Island at Pearl Harbor when the Japanese planes attacked. “We heard this plane screaming. What’s going on? This is a Sunday!” Walton said in an interview with The Record in 2011. “And then we started hearing the bombs going off. We went to the window and see this plane flying over our heads, with the red spots on it. It was probably dropping a bomb on the ol’ Utah out there. Somebody had the sense to say, ‘Better get down to the first floor.’ That’s when it all started for us." "We were in the mess hall on the first floor, and all of a sudden the guys were coming in from the battleships anchored off Ford Island. They were swimming from the battleships to land. They were full of oil, more in shock. We were helping take care of the poor guys from the battleships."
Walton was discharged from the Navy in September 1945 after serving four years in the Pacific. Then, he became a city firefighter, rising to the rank of captain before he retired in 1980. John Harris, head of the Passaic County Veterans Office, recalled meeting Walton when the two of them were members of the Paterson fire department in the 1970s. Harris was a young recruit who had been in the military in Vietnam. “All of those years, I never knew he was a survivor of Pearl Harbor,” said Harris. “He was one of those guys who saw the horrors of war and didn’t talk much about it.” Harris described Walton as “gentleman.”
Two years ago, Walton was honored as one of Paterson’s “hometown heroes” by the Boys and Girls Club of Paterson and Passaic. Young Paterson firefighters liked to pose for pictures with him because of his stature. Torres said the flags at Paterson’s firehouses would fly at half-mast in Walton’s honor. In his 2011 interview, Walton said he still thought back on his time in the Navy. "Every once in a while you lay in bed and go over it, I guess,” he said. “You think about the fun you had, more than you think about the trouble out there."